While Shepherds Watched .. TUNES??

[Jake Wade]

Well its that time of year again .. Carols, carols and yet more carols!!
Ian Bradley in an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. "
Soo .. the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??
There are the following well known versions I can bring to mind:-
Winchester Old from 1592
Lyngham
Pentonville
Hail Chime On
Ilkley Moor B'aht 'tat

I have been through all the songs I sing and can fit the words quite easily
to another 20 tunes
indeed only last Tuesday I sang it to that well known skiffle favourite -
"Putting on the Agony"
- "My Old Man's a Dustman" works as well.

So any ideas??

regards

Jake Wade
remove "tophat" to reply
***@whitedog.tophat.karoo.co.uk

[Ian & Hilda Dedic]

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again .. Carols, carols and yet more carols!!
Ian Bradley in an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. "
Soo .. the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??
There are the following well known versions I can bring to mind:-
Winchester Old from 1592
Lyngham
Pentonville
Hail Chime On
Ilkley Moor B'aht 'tat
I have been through all the songs I sing and can fit the words quite easily
to another 20 tunes
indeed only last Tuesday I sang it to that well known skiffle favourite -
"Putting on the Agony"
- "My Old Man's a Dustman" works as well.
So any ideas??
regards
Jake Wade
remove "tophat" to reply

My carols book "The Joys of Christmas" from Worrall (one of the villages
near Sheffield where the traditional carols never died out) has 12 in:

Crimond
Fern Bank
Liverpool
Lloyd
Lyngham
October
Old Foster
Pentonville
Shaw Lane
Sweet Chiming Bells
Sweet Christmas Bells
Winchester Old

Plus there are at least another half a dozen from other pubs in the
area, and several from the West Gallery tradition in Dorset that I know
of -- so well over 20 traditional tunes that I'm aware of.

Then there are the others, like The Laughing Policeman...

Ian

[Java Jive]

My favourite was the one used in an Albion Band Christmas show, sung by
Cathy Le Surf and the company. Easily the best version I've heard, but I've
no idea what that particular tune is called.

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again .. Carols, carols and yet more carols!!
Ian Bradley in an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. "
Soo .. the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??

---
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[bogus address]

Post by Jake Wade
an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. " Soo ..
the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??
So any ideas??

The Sash
The Foggy Dew
When I'm 64

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

[Jacey Bedford]

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again .. Carols, carols and yet more carols!!
Ian Bradley in an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. "
Soo .. the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??
There are the following well known versions I can bring to mind:-
Winchester Old from 1592
Lyngham
Pentonville
Hail Chime On
Ilkley Moor B'aht 'tat

Ilkley Moor is actually to the hymn tune written by Thomas Clark of
Canterbury, so its use for Shepherds might pre-date its use for Ilkley
Moor.

Anyhow, that not withstanding there are over 36 different versions of
Shepherds in the South Yorkshire carolling tradition including well
known tunes like Crimond and less well know local tunes with names like
Spout Cottage and Back Lane. There are versions which have choruses
(like 'Sweet Chiming Bells')

We do the Shepherds variants as part of our Stuff the Turkey Christmas
Show (on the road now and finishing next Sunday, see
www.artisan-harmony.com for dates) and some of the extra ones we've
found over the years (and have performed) include:

Beethoven's Ninth
Dambusters March
Theme from The Great Escape
Doe a Deer (from Sound of Music)
I'm a Pink Toothbrush
Mary Ellen Carter (until you get to the chorus)
Pinball Wizard (of course) which also means it fits to White Cockade
and...
The Can Can

Americans may also find that it fits to the tune of Gilligan's Island.

It doesn't fit very well to I Did it My Way (though you can make it fit
if you use a large lump hammer) and it's useless to the tune of Bohemian
Rhapsody.

If anyone comes up with any titles that have intrinsic comedy value - be
warned we may nick your ideas for the rest of the Christmas show run
:-)

Jacey

[Dave Hunt]

Post by Jake Wade
known versions I can bring to mind:-
Winchester Old from 1592
Lyngham
Pentonville
Hail Chime On
Ilkley Moor B'aht 'tat

The tune for 'Whilst Shepherds' was the original....Ilkley Moor used/stole the
much older carol tune...
For much more on this have a look at
http://wgma.org.uk/wgma/Orgs/VC/vcindex.html

and

http://www.folk-network.com/events/2002/carols.html
( I know it says 2002...but it's still all current info!!)

Even better ...go to the Carols in the Sheffield area (18th Nov - Christmas)
in many pubs..(details on the above site).where you will find a totally
different repertoire of carols to those sung today in churches. Not only 30 or
so versions of'Whilst Sheherds' etc... (always first three and last verse
only)...but also some other superb very 'singable' carols, plus some secular
songs which have been absorbed into the tradition...eg..The Misteltoe Bough,
The Holmfirth Anthem and a few others
Best wishes to you all for a Happy Christmas!

Dave Hunt...Shropshire
----share what you know...learn what you don't----

[Mary Humphreys]

When we last went to the Baccapipes Club in Keighley & sang 'Young
Banker', they told us that they use the tune for 'While Shepherds ...'
Mary Humphreys

[Jim Lawton]

Post by Mary Humphreys
When we last went to the Baccapipes Club in Keighley & sang 'Young
Banker', they told us that they use the tune for 'While Shepherds ...'
Mary Humphreys

If so, we were trying to throw you off the scent,

"First Noel" I think you'll find ...

Jim

[Nick Wagg]

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again .. Carols, carols and yet more carols!!
Ian Bradley in an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. "
Soo .. the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??

I once heard it sung to the same tune as "Parcel of Rogues" was
sung to by Steeleye Span and The Corries.

[Sir Benjamin Nunn]

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again .. Carols, carols and yet more carols!!
Ian Bradley in an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. "
Soo .. the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??
There are the following well known versions I can bring to mind:-
Winchester Old from 1592
Lyngham
Pentonville
Hail Chime On
Ilkley Moor B'aht 'tat
I have been through all the songs I sing and can fit the words quite
easily to another 20 tunes
indeed only last Tuesday I sang it to that well known skiffle favourite -
"Putting on the Agony"
- "My Old Man's a Dustman" works as well.
So any ideas??

In the 1980s I was in a choir that sang it to 'Blackadder'.

Also once ran out of/forgot verses whilst singing 'Hark, Hark What news the
angels bring', so started singing the While Shepherds Watched words to that
tune.

BTN

[Jake Wade]

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again ..

SNIP SNIP

Post by Jake Wade
So any ideas??
regards

******************************************************************
Thanks for your responses.
I half expected that somone would slap me on the wrist and tell me to "Go
and Google"!!

For the record hear's what you've all suggested.

Crimond, Fern Bank, Liverpool, Lloyd, Lyngham, October, Old Foster,
Pentonville, Shaw Lane, Sweet Chiming Bells
Sweet Christmas Bells, Winchester Old, The Sash, The Foggy Dew, When I'm 64,
Ilkley Moor, Spout Cottage, Back Lane,
Beethoven's Ninth, Dambuster's March, The Great Escape, Doe a Deer, I'm a
Pink Toothbrush,Mary Ellen Carter, Pinball Wizard,
White Cockade, The Can Can, Parcel of Rogues, Blackadder, Hark, Hark What
news the Angels Bring,

My own tunes not listed above are :-
Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer, Jingle Bells, Little Town of Bethlehem, The
Holly and the Ivy(Folky version),
John Barleycorn's a Hero Bold, Fair Maid of Amsterdam, Aft on the Poop deck,
Shenandoh, Brisk and Bonny Lad, Rose of Allandale, Claudy Banks, The
Salvation Army Song, Rolling Home (Sea Shanty), The Parting Glass, Let Union
Be, Amazing Grace, Long Lamkin, Little Musgrave, The Red Flag, When the
saints Go Marching in, My Old Man;s a Dustman, Putting on the Style.

and two of my own songs :- You can Never Trust the Tories & The Mad Sea
Captain.

That makes 54

[Jacey Bedford]

Post by Jake Wade

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again ..

SNIP SNIP

Post by Jake Wade
So any ideas??
regards

******************************************************************
Thanks for your responses.
I half expected that somone would slap me on the wrist and tell me to "Go
and Google"!!
For the record hear's what you've all suggested.
Crimond, Fern Bank, Liverpool, Lloyd, Lyngham, October, Old Foster,
Pentonville, Shaw Lane, Sweet Chiming Bells
Sweet Christmas Bells, Winchester Old, The Sash, The Foggy Dew, When I'm 64,
Ilkley Moor, Spout Cottage, Back Lane,
Beethoven's Ninth, Dambuster's March, The Great Escape, Doe a Deer, I'm a
Pink Toothbrush,Mary Ellen Carter, Pinball Wizard,
White Cockade, The Can Can, Parcel of Rogues, Blackadder, Hark, Hark What
news the Angels Bring,
My own tunes not listed above are :-
Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer, Jingle Bells, Little Town of Bethlehem, The
Holly and the Ivy(Folky version),
John Barleycorn's a Hero Bold, Fair Maid of Amsterdam, Aft on the Poop deck,
Shenandoh, Brisk and Bonny Lad, Rose of Allandale, Claudy Banks, The
Salvation Army Song, Rolling Home (Sea Shanty), The Parting Glass, Let Union
Be, Amazing Grace, Long Lamkin, Little Musgrave, The Red Flag, When the
saints Go Marching in, My Old Man;s a Dustman, Putting on the Style.
and two of my own songs :- You can Never Trust the Tories & The Mad Sea
Captain.
That makes 54

Not enough.
More please!

Jacey

[a***@astolat.demon.co.uk]

House of the Rising Sun.

I sang the words of Ilkley Moor to this once as a joke, with angst and
pathos turned up to 11. It worked surprisingly well (IMO).

[Paul Burke]

Post by a***@astolat.demon.co.uk
House of the Rising Sun.
I sang the words of Ilkley Moor to this once as a joke, with angst and
pathos turned up to 11. It worked surprisingly well (IMO).

Have you tried House of the Rising Sun to Teddy Bears' Picnic?

Paul Burke

[Jacey Bedford]

Post by a***@astolat.demon.co.uk
House of the Rising Sun.

Yes, of course, I forgot that - but we did use it in the Christmas Show
a couple of years ago.

You could also sing Shepherds to many of the ballad tunes - eg Tam Lin -
and, while I'm thinking of Fairport's Liege and Lief, it fits quite
nicely to Crazy man Michael.

Jacey

[Jacey Bedford]

Post by Jacey Bedford

Post by a***@astolat.demon.co.uk
House of the Rising Sun.

Yes, of course, I forgot that - but we did use it in the Christmas Show
a couple of years ago.
You could also sing Shepherds to many of the ballad tunes - eg Tam Lin
- and, while I'm thinking of Fairport's Liege and Lief, it fits quite
nicely to Crazy man Michael.

And as someone reminded us last night - it works well to 'I am the Very
Model of a Modern Major-General'

Jacey

[Molly Mockford]

At 13:22:08 on Sun, 19 Dec 2004, Jacey Bedford

Post by Jacey Bedford
And as someone reminded us last night - it works well to 'I am the Very
Model of a Modern Major-General'

The Scottish Hymnal which I had as a child (but which went in the floods
of 2000, so I can't check) marked every hymn either "SM", "LM", "CM"
(which I eventually figured out stood for Short Metre, Long Metre and
Common Metre) or with a numeric notation to denote its metre. Presumably
this was so that alternative tunes could be fitted to the words if, for
instance, the organist didn't know a particular tune.

I *think* (I may be wrong here) that "While Shepherds Watched" is Common
Metre. Thus, any other set of words whatsoever in that metre can be
sung to any tune in that metre - and there are vast numbers of sets of
words in that metre, and almost as many tunes ... because, after all,
there had to be a reason why it was designated as *Common* Metre!

[Marjorie Clarke]

Post by Molly Mockford
The Scottish Hymnal which I had as a child (but which went in the floods
of 2000, so I can't check) marked every hymn either "SM", "LM", "CM"
(which I eventually figured out stood for Short Metre, Long Metre and
Common Metre) or with a numeric notation to denote its metre. Presumably
this was so that alternative tunes could be fitted to the words if, for
instance, the organist didn't know a particular tune.

I have my mother's old Scottish psaltery and hymnal, and in the metric psalm
section each page split in half horizontally. This means you can open any
set of words with any tune. This arrangement doesn't extend to the hymns,
which are more varied.

Post by Molly Mockford
I *think* (I may be wrong here) that "While Shepherds Watched" is Common
Metre. Thus, any other set of words whatsoever in that metre can be sung
to any tune in that metre - and there are vast numbers of sets of words in
that metre, and almost as many tunes ... because, after all, there had to
be a reason why it was designated as *Common* Metre!

I never knew that was what the initials stood for, but yes, it looks from my
book as if Common Metre is the WSW metre. It's actually labelled DCM but I
can't see how it differs from the CM ones.

I also understand that for some decades, WSW was one of the few Christmas
hymns allowed, because its text is almost a paraphrase of the Bible. The
only way to get a bit of variation was to sing it to different tunes.
Eventually the other Victorian carols that make up most of the modern
repertoire were composed and added to the hymnals.

[Richard Robinson]

Post by Marjorie Clarke
I have my mother's old Scottish psaltery and hymnal, and in the metric psalm
section each page split in half horizontally. This means you can open any
set of words with any tune.

What a splendid idea. Humphrey Littleton, eat your heart out !

[Marjorie Clarke]

Post by Richard Robinson

Post by Marjorie Clarke
I have my mother's old Scottish psaltery and hymnal, and in the metric psalm
section each page split in half horizontally. This means you can open any
set of words with any tune.

What a splendid idea. Humphrey Littleton, eat your heart out !

You're right, I ought to send it in and suggest they publish an ISAHAC song
book along those lines. Humph could write an extensive preface explaining
how to use it...

[Richard Robinson]

Post by Marjorie Clarke

Post by Richard Robinson

Post by Marjorie Clarke
I have my mother's old Scottish psaltery and hymnal, and in the metric psalm
section each page split in half horizontally. This means you can open any
set of words with any tune.

What a splendid idea. Humphrey Littleton, eat your heart out !

You're right, I ought to send it in and suggest they publish an ISAHAC song
book along those lines. Humph could write an extensive preface explaining
how to use it...

I'm sure he could.

Don't forget to sign it "Mrs. Trellis".

[Java Jive]

Nah! Don't do that. Poor ol' bugger might die of shock at not having to find
a roundabout way of saying they'd had just one mail ...

Post by Richard Robinson
Don't forget to sign it "Mrs. Trellis".

[Alan Pemberton]

Post by Richard Robinson

Post by Marjorie Clarke
I have my mother's old Scottish psaltery and hymnal, and in the metric psalm
section each page split in half horizontally. This means you can open any
set of words with any tune.

What a splendid idea. Humphrey Littleton, eat your heart out !

I've always found it interesting that while most of the games in that
show are in the main vehicles for throwaway humour, all participants
take the musical rounds seriously and competitively (especially pick-up
song). It must be the imposing presence of Colin Sell at the piano.

[Jacey Bedford]

Post by Jacey Bedford

Post by Jacey Bedford

Post by a***@astolat.demon.co.uk
House of the Rising Sun.

Yes, of course, I forgot that - but we did use it in the Christmas
Show a couple of years ago.
You could also sing Shepherds to many of the ballad tunes - eg Tam Lin
- and, while I'm thinking of Fairport's Liege and Lief, it fits quite
nicely to Crazy man Michael.

And as someone reminded us last night - it works well to 'I am the Very
Model of a Modern Major-General'

And Supercalifragilisrticallyexpialidotious
- or however you spell it.
:-)

Am currently feeling demob happy - Artisan's final ever Stuff the Turkey
Show was a howling success last night with a sell-out show at the
Paramount Theatre in Penistone (home territory for us) following on from
great nights at Stamford Arts Centre, Cockermouth Kirkgate Centre and
the Georgian Theatre Royal Richmond.

Thanks to everyone who came and supported it and apologies to all those
who couldn't get tickets for the last four shows - especially to those
in the Stamford area because the tickets sold out before our mailshot
hit your doormats.

Onwards and upwards...

Artisan has a two month break before the 43 date Twentieth Anniversary
Tour beginning on February 26th.

However I am presenting Maggie Boyle, Steve Tilston and Chris Parkinson
at Birdsedge Village Hall on 22nd January, supported by wonderful new
duo, Rosie Doonan and Ben Murray. E-mail me for details.

Here's wishing all of you a Very Merry Christmas

Cheers

Jacey

[Ian White]

Post by Jake Wade
My own tunes not listed above are :-
Rudolf the Red Nosed Reindeer, Jingle Bells, Little Town of Bethlehem,
The Holly and the Ivy(Folky version), John Barleycorn's a Hero Bold,
Fair Maid of Amsterdam, Aft on the Poop deck, Shenandoh, Brisk and
Bonny Lad, Rose of Allandale, Claudy Banks, The Salvation Army Song,
Rolling Home (Sea Shanty), The Parting Glass, Let Union Be, Amazing
Grace, Long Lamkin, Little Musgrave, The Red Flag,

Hang on - the tune we know as 'The Red Flag' actually *is* a Christmas
carol. In German it's 'O Tannenbaum' and the English translation is
popular in the USA as 'Oh Christmas Tree'.

It's little heard of over here - which explains why, when my
father-in-law in the USA sent my mother one of the very first Christmas
cards that played tunes (and you have to remember, this was way back
when such cards were a real novelty, not a plague upon the land) the
first tune it played was... 'The Red Flag'.

[Steve YATES]

We used to have sessions that we referred to as Sowk Washing Nights and
we found it difficult to find a tune it wouldn't fit to ! But we were
normally on Winter Warmers I must admit.

Steve

Post by Jake Wade
Well its that time of year again .. Carols, carols and yet more carols!!
Ian Bradley in an article in the Daily Telegraph this week claimed that
"While Shepherds Watched their Flocks by Night" has
been " .. sung to up to 100 different tunes .. "
Soo .. the challenge is. What might these 100 tunes have been??
There are the following well known versions I can bring to mind:-
Winchester Old from 1592
Lyngham
Pentonville
Hail Chime On
Ilkley Moor B'aht 'tat
I have been through all the songs I sing and can fit the words quite easily
to another 20 tunes
indeed only last Tuesday I sang it to that well known skiffle favourite -
"Putting on the Agony"
- "My Old Man's a Dustman" works as well.
So any ideas??
regards
Jake Wade
remove "tophat" to reply

[Colin Davies]

For some West Gallery Christmas songs including 2 versions of While Sheperds
see http://www.internetinsight.co.uk/vitalspark/shepherds-cd.htm.

Vital Spark are based in Malvern and have been going for over 10 years. The
are appearing Sunday
2nd January 7:30pm Christmas Concert - Clodock Church - (off the A465 near
Pandy, Herefordshire) which has become a mini tradition in its own right.
They will be singing Christmas music including several versions of While
Shepherds.

The singers are mainly from the folk tradition rather than choral.